Eckhart Tolle Enlightenment June 27, 2006
Posted by Strephon Kaplan-Williams in Podcasts, Tao of Now.trackback
- Strephon Says 24 Eckhart Tolle Enlightenment
Enlightenment as Eckhart Tolle describes it, though actually Tolle says more about what enlightenment is not. Strephon explores some of the logical fallacies in Tolle’s thought.
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In this second talk by Strephon on Eckhart Tolle we explore Tolle’s concept of enlightenment.
We learn also about the logical fallacy of Definition By Negation that Tolle and society use, such as trying to say that infinity is the opposite of finite without defining infinity in terms of itself but as the negation of finite.
Thus when Tolle defines enlightenment as the absence of mind, thinking, understanding, then he is trying to define one thing as the negation or opposite of another.
Strephon, by contrast offers his own functional definition of enlightenment in terms of itself as an experience.
Yet why should anyone want enlightenment anyway, at least in Tolle’s terms, if you have to give up clear thinking as one aid to understanding who you are and what your life is all about.
Strephon suggests prefer to understand yourself and life to the core rather than seek the illusionary enlightenment that Tolle and the gurus talk about.
Prefer to use clear thinking. Avoid fallacies of unclear and contradictory thinking or you may go under in unrealistic and illusionary thought processes such as what some say enlightenment may be.
This is the capsulated form of what is a twenty-six minute talk of sometimes profound dimensions.
Just listened to “Why Eckhart Tolle?”, your podcast. I don’t think you’ve read his book very well.
Tolle did not say that “thought” was purely dysfunctional, only that “thinking” is too heavily relied upon by current humans as opposed to feeling (the present moment) and that pure thought (which you seem to define as totally defined and encompassed as “logical thinking”, a clear error) cannot be used to discover ‘truth’ in it’s totality. Tolle is NOT against thought, he merely attempts to point out an imbalance.
Tolle points out a path for many (he would say the vast majority of) humans who are stuck in incessant “thinking”.
I’m so sorry, but it seems to me that you are attempting to use Tolle’s popularity and good name to promote yourself and your own views. I’m sorry that your book, The Tao of Now” didn’t do as well as Tolle’s…maybe you’ve stumbled upon the reason why this continues to be true.
In the same way that music decends into meaningless noise without the moments of “no notes” that separate the moments in which notes exists, Tolle simply says that the experience of life descends into meaningless chaos when we fill every conscious moment with “thought”, and ignore the necessity of moments of “no thought”.
Listening to you talk as I write this, I hear you getting more and more shrill in your criticism of Tolle. I don’t care how much education you have, you are an unknown, and clearly bitter about it. So sorry you’re so angry…get over it, and go find a market for your work without being a “troll”, using Tolle’s name and popularity for bait.
FYI…my ‘resistance” is not based on your ideas, which I think are interesting and even sometimes valid. I am turned off by your making an ‘enemy’ of Tolle. So, you’re out there, saying your thing. What will >>you
PURE THINKING AND PURE AWARENESS
The discovery of philosophy by the Greeks cannot be more than three thousand years old now. Their philosophy started with the assumption that through reason, and not religion, which is based on faith and belief, we can understand who we are and what life is. Only through clear thinking can we create distance between ourselves and our direct experience.
In this sense Tolle seems to be a throw-back, or throw-forward, you choose, between pure Objective Thinking and reverting to Primary Experience as the Core Premise upon which we exist and know our existence.
To answer you, my point is that Tolle himself brought up the attack on thinking and I am stating that in contrast I find clear and decisive thinking necessary to consciousness at all times.
I quote Tolle as a basis of debating the issue. You do not quote me as the basis of your challenge but you do attack me, as in the following quotes: “So sorry you’re so angry…get over it,” “I’m so sorry, but it seems to me that you are attempting to use Tolle’s popularity and good name”
My own statement would be this: “Being is in essence the core of all that exists including the direct experience of ourselves, yet also encompassing the laws, principles and characteristics of a thing.
We can arrive at the essence of our deepest self, our true nature, not by direct experience alone in the Now, but by the experience of Now attenuated with our awareness of Now, our awareness of the present Now through the purest recognition possible of what is happening to us, and what of us is happening to the experience.
To know the essence of our experience, and our awareness, we must use pure thinking to do so, since the laws and principles of clear thinking also seem to be a manifestation of the laws and principles of the cosmos itself.
This is Strephon Kaplan-Williams speaking as a philosopher responding to a critic. Hopefully I don’t have to take the Hemlock yet! (Remember Socrates?)
“Enlightenment is finding that there is nothing to find. Enlightenment is to come to know that there is nowhere to go. Enlightenment is the understanding that this is all, that this is perfect, that this is it. Enlightenment is not an achievement, it is an understanding that there is nothing to achieve, nowhere to go. You are already there — you have never been away.”
Osho
Love and Light xxx
Anyone who studies Tolle and comes up with an idea which suggests “giving up clear thinking” , in my opinion, is somehow receiving the opposite of what Eckhart writes about.
This reviewer speaks as a child clinging to a toy or an ego clinging to life.
Just read Tolle, Power of Now, and listened to your critical analysis.
I am pleased to tell you that I agree 100% with your analysis of Tolle’s lack of use of sound logic and his spinning of word webs designed to catch flys who are willing to be caught up in this vapid nonsense.
That being said it would appear that you have never experienced enlightenment yourself and cannot explain it.
I have experienced enlightenment recently and know what it is, and what it is not. I am absolutely sure that one who has had a peak experience of this kind does not have to ask what E is. I would like to connect with any others who have had genuine E experiences and can be contacted at Lmarshallclu@aol.com.
The experience of enlightenment is not common but there are those out there who know exactly what it is and can recognize others who have known it. You are not among the gurus. You are everyday people who simply have been blessed with this experience. Please contact me at the above email address
Is it possible that I could believe I had “experienced” enlightenment and be wrong? Sure. Is it possible for others to do the same? Sure. I find it disheartening to see so many people make such claims with utter certainty. One tenet I THINK we should share is that we cannot possibly know anything with absolute certainty. This idea allows us to grow and learn. Claiming to know something without any doubt is a dead end.
Also sad to see is the strong language and personal attacks that so often accompany the opinions presented on these message boards. I find it to be an indication of an emotional state which, by its nature, hinders a rational discourse. That said, I do not want to portray such a strong emotional response in a purely negative light, only to say it should be considered and perhaps allowed to pass to avoid its potential deleterious effects…
At least that’s what I think… I could be wrong!
I came to this site as I was searching for opinions about Eckhart Tolle’s recent book, A New Earth. It is interesting for me to read and listen to friends and strangers talk about their personal impressions and experiences of enlightenment, and then witness the judgmental zingers that are flung at those who may offer another perspective. I am witnessing more so called enlighten people participating in spiritual snobbery. I found Tolle’s book, A New Earth, filled with new reasons to create judgment rather than creating a sense of community, and that everyone, everything is perfection in the moment; in the now.
I have a friend who is reading Tolle’s book. I was sharing with her about a job I had applied for and what I was experiencing. She said that I was using the word “I” a lot, which is an indication that I am too connected to my ego, which Tolle’s book goes into great depth about the ego.
It’s going to be difficult to have a meaningful conversation without the use of I as a reference to taking personal responsibility and ownership of one’s thoughts and actions, and what’s worse is spiritual enlightenment has once again offered another concept for which to judge others.
This blog, thread, is obviously not current and it appears, like me, that those of us who have offered our thoughts seem to stumble upon it. I offer you a final thought. As the frenzy with the book the Secret, and the near hullabaloo with A New Earth, are we moving into an era of what I call Spiritual Commercialism—where a fad of “spirituality in the moment” is created? Spirituality in the moment seems to deconstruct simple truths, create confusion, disruption, and then poof onto the next fad.
On Black and White
I agree with Jason. All knowledge (or sense data) is uncertain and probabilistic. Let me put it another way with a hypothetical:
Imagine a universe without blacks and whites: in fact all one can ever truly perceive is merely differing shades of gravy, black being but a very very dark shades of grey and white a very very light one with all of the various shades in between. In this universe would it not be possible to ever actually perceive or achieve a perfect black or a perfect white as they would only exist as platonic like abstractions or ideals in the mind of the perceiver. So in this physical world black and white do not exist.
And so for the ideal of a complete or perfect enlightenment which is an abstraction that one can therefore also only hyperbolically approach (like the speed of light) but never quiet ultimately get there!
This is I believe the universe we live in!
(And yes I too have had my own, but singular, peak experience.)
Tolle speaks of Religion being dogmatic. But what he speaks is a belif & a practice as well. Religion=a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion. Just saying. I’m worng & your right can be found in any teaching. Is your way of living life The Way or is it an illusion?
I am THE WAY
no you’re not
Have you ever tried to hunt for the present moment? you get there you think but then you realize you didn’t but the closer you get the more presence you experience. If there is time, there is past and future. But then, what is the now? The infinitely small or non-existent “gap” between present and future? What Tolle gave to me was a sense of no time. If the concept of time is something evolutionary evolved in us, for us to be able to sort out our experiences then we could learn to abandon it. We could experience our place as only space. The clock is ticking because it does, why make the series of events into a line on which we and everything glide along. Yeah, don’t bother, I know why but try this image and at least the sense of presence in “the now” will emerge. Your lover will appear more real, and the food will have a taste instead of being a memory of taste.
Peace: “Tolle speaks of Religion being dogmatic. But what he speaks is a belif & a practice as well. Religion=a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:” Isn’t that the case of all western or any other society? Is democracy a religion? Using a dictionary to make anyone wrong without going further in reasoning is easy.
Tolle gave me one hint in life. So did a lot of people, and some of you guys, I don’t care about the word “enlightenment”. Do you? It’s just a word!
PS: Sorry for my language, I’m not a native English speaker.
The more one thinks the further you are from your true self. Your true self is not physical, or of thoughts. You are everything or no-thing, both are the same. We are consciousness, everything-ness, form-less. There is only one consciousness, it is in and of everything, be it an atom or a star in the sky, plant, animal or human. That is GOD, we are GOD. Clear thinking or chaotic thinking is much like the thin film of a bubble or clouds in the sky, once it disappears YOU are there. You are there- EVERYWHERE and NOWHERE!!! A mind is the only thing to lose!!
Enlightenment: that is a state where a person can, at any time, lose one’s own mind and be the every thingness and nothingness , to become “GOD”, one’s true nature, to be out of mind. That’s all an enlightened person is, a rare gift at that. There are more people who can on rare occasion have brief glimpses of their true nature, and that happens with meditation, lots of meditation at that. So, all of you who want to ‘think’ themselves to bliss, it’s your time, your life. You can bark up the wrong tree as much as you like and delude yourselves in to “thinking” that you are blissful, as long as you keep your mind involved, you’re fools!!! Lose it baby, Chris is right, a mind is the ONLY thing to lose!.
“as long as you keep your mind involved, you’re fools!!!”
Who said that? Was it not your mind? Where you not using your mind to formulate those “thoughts”? Had you not had your mind you would have never come across the idea of enlightenment. You wouldn’t have the equipment to do that. All you enlightened beings out there, didn’t the idea and the first steps begin with thought and the discovery of no mind as a counterpoint to mind? Anyone searching will inextricably use the mind, and anyone who has found it will USE his or her mind to formulate words and help in liberating others, not being abusive. I think that Eckhart Tolle is bit new age but he has a comprehensive way to describe what is fundamentally Buddhist ideas. I recommend reading him but not taking words like “inner vibrational frequencies”, “divine” and such obscure phrases too seriously.
Enlightenment seems like art, everyone has their own idea of what it is, and few understand each other fully.
I refer to the Oprah version of enlightenment as “Delightenment.” Every thing will work out and you will be rewarded with material gain as a result of your spiritual work. We’ll be right back after a word from our corporate sponsor.
Let me refer to a specific discussion between Oprah and Tolle. He describes thinking too much as being stuck in a ditch. The more one thinks, the more one sinks. Before he finishes, Oprah cuts in with a colloquial “You just gonna get more mud on ya!” Eckhart agrees but that is not his point at all. You are going to sink, not suffer from dirty clothes. This is the surface mentality that Oprah works on. Eckhart goes along because she is making him a zillionaire.
Forget about the idea that the best thing to do when stuck in a ditch is to think about how to get out; abandon the physical and be still. This may or may not include enlightenment, but stop digging. A real bad analogy full of holes and also very shopworn. The best description for the Tolle philosophy in general.
I would also be more favorable to this narrative if Tolle included some of his obvious influences: Plato, Teilhard de Chardin and Catholic Mysticism, Jung, Buddhism, Taoism, the obvious anti-Descartes angle and many more. Perhaps he is not encouraged to discuss the great literature in a popular format?
By the way, attempting to denigrate another’s opinion by offering up your own experience in comparison seems to be using ego as a defense mechanism. So much for enlightenment.
Well I guess he should have stayed a recluse then eh?
And the most ………… zillionaire if you want one is D.Chopra.
A most insightful response given above by Louis Abbott.
Most insightful.
I see we understand very different things while reading Tolle. His reference to thinking for example, I did not understand from reading the book that thinking is useless or dysfunctional. I think that the important part of Tolle’s work, and the same goes for Ramana Maharshi or Nisargadatta Maharaj has to do with the center of our identity. We take a contruction created by thought and memory and turn it into an identity. They are just pinting out that it does not hold the reality we pretend it has. I would refer anyone to Freud’s definition of Ego and Id. These guys, for me, are pointing out the same problem as Freud did, when referring to identification.
If you just dont like how Tolle talks, thats ok. Just cause I dont personally like many people, it doesnt make them “wrong” or “liars”
problems for those with long held beliefs ? Tolle could have avoided controversy by avoiding quoting or misquoting Jesus . He avoids quoting from vedanta and the Upnishads (ancient hindu texts) which are really the basis of his ideas. Tolle is New Age only in the commercial marketing of ideas used by Indian mystics for atleast 5000 years. These ideas may have influenced Tao, Buddhism and maybe even Western religions.
Some of the criticism of Tolle is obviously plain envy. I wish i had put forth these ideas ! His genius is stating the obvious in simple language is much like that of Shakespeare but in self awareness. I suspect not many will be able to practise what Tolle suggests even in small measure. Like me, they will be impressed with the good stuff for the moment “now” and move on or back into our minds/ egos/the voice in the head.